LAURA JAYES, HOST: Joining me now here in the studio is the Assistant Minister for Trade and a Future Made in Australia, Tim Ayres. It is little wonder Sydney leads the way on that declining birth rate and it's not that hard to work out why, is it?
SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR A FUTURE MADE IN AUSTRALIA AND TRADE: I think that right across western economies and developed economies, we have seen falling birth rates, so it's not 100% of the story. There are other issues in developed economies driving lower birth rates, that's for sure, but it does underscore how important housing is to families feeling secure.
JAYES: Yeah. So, do you think housing is absolutely a factor here?
SENATOR AYRES: It is absolutely fundamental. I mean, that is what is driving the government towards the ambitious target that we've set for 1.2 million homes. That is what is driving us to help low and middle income families through Help to Buy, to support some families to get through and get there faster. We know how important housing security is. There are no easy answers here. This is the thing about this debate.
JAYES: Not easy, but there’s a few suggestions, like from the Business Council, like for a dramatic rezoning in NSW and in Sydney in particular. I mean, these are- this is the lowest hanging fruit you're going to get in this space. Why isn't that being done?
SENATOR AYRES: Number one, I still maintain that there's no silver bullet solution. We should be open across the board to whether it's regulatory reform, zoning reform, planning reform, building more social and public housing, bringing in the right skills.
JAYES: Bringing in the right skills, is that happening?
SENATOR AYRES: All of these things matter. Some of the simplistic debate about this, you know, the naysayers from the Coalition who are relentlessly negative.
JAYES: What’s too simplistic, do you think? What are you talking about there?
SENATOR AYRES: Well, I think people, well, let's go to tax reform questions.
JAYES: Negative gearing.
SENATOR AYRES: Yeah. I think there's a view in some sections of the community that there's just one thing that makes a difference. That's why the government's focused on supply.
JAYES: Sure, but if you want to talk about tax, let’s talk about negative gearing because there's some within your party that want to revive that.
SENATOR AYRES: There’s no interest in anything other than what the government is proposing here, and I think, as the Prime Minister said, he's not persuaded. I'm not persuaded. I don't think the government is persuaded that single measures in tax reform do the heavy lifting that is required.
JAYES: They do do the heavy lifting.
SENATOR AYRES: What's required is-
JAYES: Stamp duty, capital gains tax, negative gearing. I mean if you did something in that space. governments, state.
SENATOR AYRES: Sure, state governments have done some pretty interesting things in that area. What is it that the Federal Government can do here? Focus on supply.
JAYES: Sure.
SENATOR AYRES: Focus on providing affordable housing.
JAYES: But that’s a bit of a furphy, Tim, because, okay, yeah, they are state government tax issues-
SENATOR AYRES: It’s a $30 billion package.
JAYES: Yeah, absolutely.
SENATOR AYRES: It's not a small contribution. It'll take time.
JAYES: Well, you’re incentivising. Sure, but, I mean, how many times do we need to be told that stamp duty, for example, is an inefficient tax? I mean, the name alone tells you how inefficient it is. It was literally named stamp duty back in the day because you were charged for getting the stamp.
SENATOR AYRES: Yeah, it's interesting, right, the sort of legacy that sits behind it. But of course, all that stuff is fascinating, but what is it that the government is doing here? We have set aside considerable funds and a considerable package in cooperation with the states. The last government didn't have a meeting of the Housing Ministers across the states for more than five years.
JAYES: Now, they did have Covid to deal with to be fair.
SENATOR AYRES: Yes, but they sort of seemed to claim that negligence was a good strategy, that abandoning the field entirely was a good strategy. There are no good ideas coming from the other side of politics. All we've got at the moment, and I'm in the Senate, I watch it all the time, is Peter Dutton's team and Adam Bandt's team getting together in a sort of negative coalition to stop housing reform. People didn't realise-
JAYES: Just tell me, is this going to be your number one priority going to the next election? Is it going to be a big bag announcement here to capture voters’ attention? Is that going to be your second term agenda?
SENATOR AYRES: Well, we have got a strong plan for the future.
JAYES: Okay, but will that plan ramp up?
SENATOR AYRES: We have got a strong plan and there is a more than $30 billion package there that's focused on building more homes right across Australia and supporting people who currently don't have a home through a series of measures that are designed to make a difference. And what people didn't realise, people out there who have been voting Liberal all their lives, voted for Peter Dutton, they didn't realise that when they voted for Peter Dutton that they would get Adam Bandt and Mehreen Faruqi when it comes to policy.
JAYES: That is quite a thread.
SENATOR AYRES: People who voted Green, who don't realise they're getting Peter Dutton on housing policy. Like, actually there's a serious, sensible plan here, being advanced by the government. It's been held up by the most partisan sort of base, narrow politics. People should get on with it. The Senate should get on with it.
JAYES: Speaking about base, narrow politics, a criticism coming from the left on Anthony Albanese's house purchase in Copacabana. Did that surprise you?
SENATOR AYRES: No, it didn't surprise me. I didn't know about it.
JAYES: No, no. The criticism I'm talking about, did the criticism surprise you from the left and from within your own party?
SENATOR AYRES: I think there's always people who want to have their say about these questions and a focus on this kind of stuff. It seems like showbiz to me, really. I think most Australians see a bloke who works hard, who's worked hard his whole life, who's made a purchase. It's proper that it's disclosed. That's what we all do. That's what we all do.
JAYES: Does it show that he’s maybe got one foot out the door?
SENATOR AYRES: No, absolutely not. I can tell you from personal experience and watching this guy closely over decades, he is so focused on this opportunity that we have to set Australia up for the future, to deal with some tough challenges now. We have had to work hard on inflation.
JAYES: Would you have told him not to buy this house right now so close to an election?
SENATOR AYRES: Of course not. People have got to make choices for themselves. They're essentially private decisions.
JAYES: Well, nothing's really that private when you're the Prime Minister.
SENATOR AYRES: They're disclosed publicly, of course, but think about where we are and the opportunity that Anthony Albanese is focused on for the country.
JAYES: Sure.
SENATOR AYRES: We've done a good job, halved inflation. We have made real progress on jobs – a million, almost a million new jobs.
JAYES: So, he's getting in before a rate cut, before property prices go up.
SENATOR AYRES: We have got a plan for the future that includes, in my portfolio, a Future Made in Australia, changing the shape of the economy in our national interest and in our national security interest, creating good jobs in the regions and suburbs. This is an opportunity. This bloke is so focused on what we can do for Australia now and into the future. That's his focus. That's the focus of the government.
JAYES: What about the $100 million that the Federal Government put towards upgrading the road that is near his new house?
SENATOR AYRES: I did hear this. I did hear this story. There is not a single- like, there are millions of people driving around Australia as we speak, right. Not watching the show, probably not listening to it either, but millions of them are driving on a road that Anthony Albanese has either built or improved. His legacy as a Transport and Infrastructure Minister, building roads and infrastructure that have shaped modern Australia is a decades long legacy.
JAYES: So, there's nothing in it?
SENATOR AYRES: There's nothing in that story, but it does underscore that there are very few parts of the country where Anthony Albanese hasn't had an impact on road infrastructure. And there are hundreds of thousands of people, Laura, on the Central Coast, who either live there or come to the Central Coast regularly who’ll be using roads that he's funded, that he's been personally engaged in. I know when you talk to Anthony Albanese about roads, there isn't a part of the country where he can't talk in a long list about the highways, the freeways, the culverts, the truck stops, whatever is going on, he loves it and it's made a difference to the country and right now he's making a difference to the country on maybe a broader canvas than just roads and infrastructure, but he loves it.
JAYES: He loves roads.
SENATOR AYRES: He's made a big difference in that area. He loves rail. Transport matters and it matters for productivity and efficiency in the economy, and it matters for commuters every day in our big cities.
JAYES: I'd love to talk about roads with you a little bit more.
SENATOR AYRES: Anytime you like, Laura.
JAYES: We’ll stop for now. Tim, thanks so much.
ENDS.
