KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Welcome back to the programme. Let's bring in the Assistant Minister for Trade and for a Future Made in Australia, Senator Tim Ayres. We've just seen this move by the Greens. Senator Payman voted with the Greens, as expected on this, but it’s sanctions against Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israeli government. What's your take on this? Is it just grandstanding for the Greens? 

SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR A FUTURE MADE IN AUSTRALIA AND TRADE: Yes, it is just grandstanding. It's grandstanding for a partisan political purpose. They want to bring the conflict in Gaza here and prosecute the arguments with no regard to social cohesion. I mean, ultimately, there is nothing hollower than the sound of a Greens motion passing or not passing the Australian Senate on foreign policy. It has no impact, zero impact on the Australian government's position. The Australian government's position is determined by the Australian government in the national interest. This is just partisan grandstanding, and I expect to see more of it. 

GILBERT: Is this what frustrates you with the move by Senator Payman? That she's now sitting with the Greens? There was a view that there was a lot of potential for her within the government to have an influence as she rose up the ranks, but that's not happening now. 

SENATOR AYRES: Well, it's the government that's determining our position here in relation to this conflict in Gaza. It is very distressing as this conflict goes on day after day, a very significant civilian death toll. The government is doing all of the things that Australians would expect it to do. We are focused on prosecuting the national interest on being very clear with the participants in the conflict about our expectations about conduct, and that is what we will continue to do. 

GILBERT: You know, the Prime Minister says we've got to dial down the language and the tone of the debate. Adam Bandt, he says if the Prime Minister wants to change the debate, he should start by sanctioning the extremist Netanyahu government. That was his response. 

SENATOR AYRES: It’s just extremism piled on extremism piled on extremism. We actually have to tell people the truth and be responsible in terms of the language. There is a risk here of heightened social anxiety about these questions being goaded on by Greens politicians on this argument, you know, saying things that are not true in order to provoke a reaction amongst people who they hope will vote for them. That is what is really going on here. They actually have a responsibility as political leaders to act in the national interest. Some of these issues are very, very challenging indeed, Kieran. But the government's responsibility here is to protect the Australian national interest and have an approach that's informed by our values, and that is exactly what we are doing, and that is exactly what most Australians expect us to do. 

GILBERT: Just before you came on, Zoe McKenzie, the Liberal MP, the member for Flinders, was saying, similar to what James Patterson has said, that we need to be more careful in terms of those visas granted to people fleeing Gaza off the back of comments made by Mike Burgess at the weekend, where he said they draw a distinction between rhetorical support and stronger support, whether it be physical [or] monetary support. She's saying any support, rhetorical or otherwise, should preclude someone from being granted a visa. There'd be a lot of people watching today who'd say she's on the money with that. 

SENATOR AYRES: Well, I think the position has to be that we take the advice of the agencies when determining visa processing and that the checks occur properly. Australians can be assured that the department will be conducting these checks properly, including security checks, and the government will take the advice of the security agencies in terms of the approach that we take. Not out there grandstanding, making partisan statements about security questions, but relying upon the expertise of the security agencies and their advice to government. 

GILBERT: I know you've got to get back to the Senate. Your staff is telling us you’ve got to go soon. But just one more on the wages number that's come in at 4.1% on an annual basis. Real wage growth - 

SENATOR AYRES: And real wage growth matters. 

GILBERT: - but it doesn't do a lot in terms of the prospects of a rate cut, does it? 

SENATOR AYRES: Well, it helps people keep their heads above water and look at what happened in childcare. 15% wage increase for childcare workers, delivering early childhood education for our kids. That's good for them, a decent wage increase. It's good for the childcare sector because it means more people will work there. It's good for workforce participation and productivity and ultimately that is good, as we lift workforce participation and productivity, that assists the government's task in the medium term with dealing with inflation. 

GILBERT: There's no wage spiral, which would be a relief. 

SENATOR AYRES: There is no evidence for a wage price spiral. We are a long way away from that kind of proposition. What is happening here is Australian workers, supported by the government, keeping their head above water. Still more tough work to do, pushing down the cost of living, two back-to-back surplus budgets, a tax cut for every single Australian taxpayer, energy price relief, all of these things opposed by the Opposition. We are just going to keep getting on with the job of supporting Australians through pretty challenging times.  

GILBERT: Senator - 

SENATOR AYRES: Sounds like I better run, Kieran. See you later. 

GILBERT: - I think you've got to go back to the Senate. Appreciate your time. 

SENATOR AYRES: Thank you. 

ENDS.