LAURA JAYES, HOST: Well, yesterday, Trump, true to form and as he promised during the election campaign, reinstated or reiterated his promise on day one after his inauguration to impose extra tariffs, extra tariffs on China, Mexico and Canada. The question now is what that will do not only to the price of everyday goods in America, but to the inflation story worldwide. Joining me now is Assistant Trade and Future Made in Australia Minister Tim Ayres. Tim, great to see you. So, what does it mean for us?

SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR A FUTURE MADE IN AUSTRALIA AND TRADE: G'day. Well, that remains to be seen, of course, Laura. We'll watch the course of these events carefully. I just make the point more broadly that free trade and open markets are in Australia's interest. We are a trading economy where one in four Australian jobs, to some extent, relies upon our trade inwards and outwards with the rest of the world. And so, we'll take a position as a government that is about advocating for Australia's best interests in terms of our economy and our economic resilience. That means advocating for open markets across the world, including for our agriculture sector, but also in bilateral discussions with the American government before January and after January, in the Australian interest, in the interest of our steelmakers, our aluminium producers and the rest of Australian industry. We have a very broad and deep economic and strategic relationship with the United States.

JAYES: Yeah, he's threatened that once before. Joe Hockey pulled that back from the brink. So, is that what you're bracing for? Extra tariffs on some of those big exports?

SENATOR AYRES: Well, as I say, that remains to be seen. We'll be working very closely as a government with our counterparts in the United States.

JAYES: But obviously it's a concern given his form.

SENATOR AYRES: Well, it does underscore that Australia is operating in a world that's very different to the world that we operated in five years ago. And that means, yes, a strong emphasis on taking a careful, deliberate approach, always focused on the national interest, not on the domestic politics, but on the national interest in our trading relationships with the world. But it also, Laura, underscores why measures like Future Made in Australia are so important in standing up for Australian industry in a global race for investment in manufacturing capability. I want to see the world's best manufacturers investing in Australia and the position that Peter Dutton's taken on Future Made in Australia is just completely at odds with Australia's strategic risks and strategic opportunities.

JAYES: Sure, but isn't the best thing you could do for a Future Made in Australia is bring down energy prices? Like, that's the number one thing. People are not going to invest and manufacture in Australia with astronomically high energy prices. And look at today, two days of 40 degrees and already our grid is under pressure. I mean, who's going to invest in that?

SENATOR AYRES: Well, can I respond to that in two parts? Of course energy prices matter. That's why the government is, instead of what the last government did, which was zero on energy, 24 coal plants, coal-fired power stations announced their closure under the sort of Morrison, Turnbull, Abbott catastrophe where nothing happened, just disinvestment. So, no energy generation, almost no energy generation. Four gigawatts out of the system, only one gigawatt went back in. What’s holding Australia back at the moment is a decade of Dutton and Morrison and Abbott and Taylor and Turnbull and Barnaby Joyce and all these characters who couldn't deliver an energy strategy.

JAYES: Sure, but you’ve extended the life of coal.

SENATOR AYRES: Now we know that building the energy system of the future is fundamental to our industrial competitiveness, but, also, Future Made in Australia is fundamental to our industrial competitiveness and standing in its way is utterly at odds with any sensible understanding of Australia's future economic resilience and of our national security. Future Made in Australia goes to all of those questions, the future shape of our economy, and Peter Dutton is trashing it. He's talking down Australian manufacturing. He's talking down the capacity of Australians to work together to build future manufacturing competitiveness. He's trashing Australia's brand around the world, all for a narrow partisan objective. This government wants to see Future Made in Australia through the Parliament and putting Australian industry on the world stage, able to compete for good jobs and new factories in our outer suburbs and in our regions. That's what this is all about. Peter Dutton is all risk in this area, all downside, all disinvestment, whether it's in the energy system or whether it's in manufacturing. The idea that he wants to start again on the energy questions, to invest somewhere in the 2040s, in $600 billion worth of the most expensive power that Australia could buy, and he wants to trash Future Made in Australia, this is worse than Tony Abbott kicking the auto industry offshore. What Peter Dutton proposes for 2025 for Australia would be an industrial catastrophe, the end of Australian manufacturing. And some of the hardheads in the Liberal and National Party ought to wise up to how dangerous and extreme and how reckless this policy approach is.

JAYES: Ok, it's the last sitting week of Parliament. There's a flurry of things to get through. Some of it won't. I also note that Wayne Swan has declined an offer to appear before a Senate committee to answer questions about the super fund that he is at the head of. Do you think he should appear?

SENATOR AYRES: Well, I'm not sure what the latest in this saga is. There's certainly an effort by Senator Bragg and Senator Hume and others in the Liberal Party to attack industry superannuation. There's always work here for the regulators and super funds or the regulators and banks to do to improve performance. Things don't always go perfectly, but you'd have to say that over the last 30 years that industry super has outperformed all of the alternatives at very strong returns. But that's not to say that they can't continue to improve their performance and that's the work that the regulators need to do. We're focused on these cost-of-living issues for all Australians. That's why we announced today a new package-

JAYES: So, who do we believe, the regulator or Wayne Swan?

SENATOR AYRES: Well, Cbus and industry super funds ought to continue to work carefully with the regulators. But that's why in another area that matters much more to Australians right now, we've introduced today a new suite of reforms for supermarkets that include massive fines for anti-competitive behaviour.

JAYES: Good pivot. I will pay that.

SENATOR AYRES: But it matters, Laura.

JAYES: Yeah, I know. I know.

SENATOR AYRES: Superannuation matters for Australians for their retirement incomes for the future. It's really important but today your viewers are going to be at the supermarket. $10 million fines for anti-competitive, unconscionable behaviour. Much more available, including proportions of turnover. This is the most significant suite of reforms that are pro-consumer and pro-farmer from the Albanese government. A lot of hot talk from Peter Dutton. You know, all the sort of carry on that we saw over Christmas. Zero policy delivery, no policy options from this bloke. Instead, we are just carefully getting on with the job and have just announced the biggest suite of pro-consumer and pro-farmer reforms that means that there'll be real discipline on the supermarkets on these questions.

JAYES: Nothing about pro-business, people that create the jobs. What do you think?

SENATOR AYRES: Oh, well, of course it is. I talk all the time to people in the supply chain for the supermarkets who want to see these kind of reforms. If you're a manufacturing business providing tinned vegetables or tinned fruit or food products or cleaning products to the supermarkets, of course you're invested in making sure that supermarkets treat their supply chains fairly. So, yes, it's for consumers, yes, it's for farmers, but also the big supply chain where hundreds of thousands of Australians are employed, they need a fair shake too, and that's what these reforms deliver.

JAYES: Tim, great to talk to you. We're well out of time but you're pretty busy there in Canberra so I'll leave you to it.

SENATOR AYRES: It's pretty full tilt here, Laura, but it's always good to talk to you and your viewers.

JAYES: Thanks so much.

ENDS.