HOST, LAURA JAYES: Let's get to the Minister now for trade and a Future Made in Australia. Tim Ayres. We're going to talk policy in a moment Tim, but I want to get your response to this. Should Richard Marles be responding to this? Do you respect this staffer's right to hold a media conference with her legal team?

SENATOR TIM AYRES: Well, of course, Laura, I can't comment on it at all for three reasons. Firstly, I don't know anything about it, and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to know anything about it. Secondly, it seems to me, from your account of it, and from what I read in the Guardian, that there's some legal representation involved and given it's a legal matter, I'm not able to comment. Thirdly, and most importantly, I think we've, as a government, we’ve set a very high standard and worked across the parliament to achieve a set of reforms to improve the culture, and to make sure that there's independent and proper processes. None of those processes, Laura, involve politicians talking about these issues on interviews like this one. Process should be respected and there is all of those processes that I'm sure will be engaged, and I just really can't help you with comments on this.

JAYES: Yeah, and that's fair enough, but if I could move away from this direct case and raise that that this happened when the coalition was in government. It was very different circumstances, I would point out with Rochelle Miller, but it all comes down to an unhappy, pressurised workplace. Is this a bit of a humbling experience potentially, for Labor here? Because you did go hard on the politics when this was happening to the coalition on the government side, but this now perhaps suggests it is right across the parliament.

AYRES: Well, I think comparisons are odious, Laura.

JAYES: Yeah, fair enough.

AYRES: And, you know, we as a government have set a very high standard and are working hard as a government for the people of Australia. Absolutely, this is a workplace that it's very important that it performs at its best for the people of Australia and that's why we've engaged in the reforms that we've engaged in in terms of this matter. Again, for the reasons I set out, it just would be completely inappropriate for me to offer any commentary about this matter.

JAYES: Yeah, look, when the government has changed IR laws, certainly there has been a bit of a change in the onus of proof in terms of what the corporate sector needs to do in terms of avoiding this kind of, you know, disgruntled employees or workplace tension. Is perhaps this an example from within government, from within Parliament House, that sometimes that reversal of proof, sometimes the standard of proof and how you can defend that, well, it might be a little bit problematic as it is in the corporate world.

AYRES: Well, it's a very valiant effort to get me to engage on these questions, Laura. At a policy level, the Albanese government has made workplaces more cooperative, extended collective bargaining rights and workers’ rights to more workers, including workers in the gig economy who've had no rights at all. We've lifted real wages, lifted wages in areas of the economy like aged care and childcare by a very substantial amount.

We've closed the gender pay gap for women to its lowest ever levels, not by doing what the last government did, which was to push down male average weekly earnings, but by lifting the wages of women in those key occupations. We have made significant progress on women's wages and wages right across the economy, so that Australian workers, during a set of cost-of-living challenges, are earning more today than they have earned before and are keeping more of what they earn because of our tax changes.

So, we are proud of the work that we've done, lifting wages, lifting cooperation, getting the fundamentals right for the productivity improvements that we need to see right across the economy. It’s work that we're going to have to continue doing, not wandering around like the last government was looking for an argument across the economy.

Getting unions and business working together on the things that are going to make a difference. Dare I say it, Laura, in an effort to shift the conversation to the policy issues, to work on the big projects like Future Made in Australia, the future shape of the Australian economy, reindustrializing the economy, bringing manufacturing back to our regions and suburbs, that's what the focus of the parliament should be on this week, is making Australia a destination for the world's best manufacturers and the global investment community to be here investing in Australian manufacturing.

JAYES: Yeah, that's right. And again, valiant effort from you as well. And good segway, I respect that. I just want to ask one more question about this and it's not specific about it. It's more kind of, It's a bigger question about what happens in parliament and the real world experience in business and in the corporate world. Do you think sometimes there is this kind of bubble in Canberra where you set these expectations within the workplace that no one can meet all of the time?

AYRES: Not in my observation, Laura. These are, whether you're working here in the press gallery or working in an important role, these are important jobs working for the Australian people. That's why the government has focused on the reforms that have been canvassed very widely. They set up processes that should be respected and I expect that people will echo that message throughout the course of today. I actually expect, you know, as you have in this interview today, to respect that there are independent processes here that have been set up. They will be engaged, they're all quite proper and that's the way that this should work.

JAYES: Okay, just a final one here. There's the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister. Maybe an intemperate Renmark regarding Tourette's in question time. How would you categorise it?

AYRES: Well, you could see in his reaction, as soon as he'd said it, he withdrew and apologised. Didn't do one of the sort of grudging apologies and withdrawals that sometimes you see people do when they say something. He did it directly and immediately and he followed it up because he, as he said it you could see that he wished he hadn’t, and I think that's appropriate. You know, he's a genuine bloke. Wishes he hadn't said it. It came out. He said it. He apologised straight away. He withdrew. He followed it up with a very decent. With a very decent additional withdrawal and apology. Australians understand that all of us say things in the heat of the moment that we wish we hadn't, and he's dealt with it and I think people accept that's the case.

JAYES: Tim, as always good to talk to you. Thanks so much.

AYRES: Good on you, Laura. See you soon.

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