CHRIS RIEGER, HOST: Joined on the line by Senator Tim Ayres, the Assistant Minister for Future Made in Australia, and the Assistant Minister for Trade. Good morning to you. Tim, nice to chat again.
SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR A FUTURE MADE IN AUSTRLIA AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR TRADE: Yeah. G'day Chris, good to be on the show.
RIEGER: This morning I thought we'd start...earlier on this morning, we had a chat to Mark Coulton, who had a bit to say on the Future Made in Australia policy. So, what I'll do is, if you just bear with me for a couple of seconds, hopefully I'll have the audio of Mark here, and you can have a listen to what he had to say, and then I'll ask you for a comment.
MARK COULTON, MEMBER FOR PARKES [ON THE PHONE]: It sounds like it could be hard to argue against making things in Australia, but when you get into the detail, it's all about renewable energy. I think a lot of the things that they are saying just don't add up. One of them is they wanted to make us into a world powerhouse to produce solar panels. Well, the reality is that we're struggling at the moment to find people to, you know, particularly in our part of the world, to find people to do the jobs that we have. I don't think Australian workers want to work at the same standards that was what we see in China. And so, I think, you know, we maybe should be focusing on some of our strengths, rather than have a policy that's basically based on ideological reasons, which means that renewable energy is the complete focus. Clearly, I believe we need a balance. Renewables are certainly part of it, but we need a broader balance for our energy generation, but to put billions of dollars into an industry not based on practical reasons, but more ideological ones, I think is going to be fraud.
RIEGER: There you go. That was the Federal Member for Parkes, Mark Coulton, earlier this morning, talking about the policy. Your response?
SENATOR AYRES: The only part I agree with Mark about that is his first sentence where he said, Future Made in Australia is very hard to argue against. It is. You're either on the side of Australian manufacturing or you're not. And the problem for the Federal Coalition, is that they've become so relentlessly negative, they've really shifted towards talking Australia down, diminishing our manufacturing capability. They had a decade in office where nothing happened except jobs roaring offshore. We've got a government that is now on the side of Australian manufacturing and determined to bring investment back. And these guys, David Littleproud and Peter Dutton and all these characters, are arguing for more of the same. That is more disinvestment, less jobs, less opportunity, particularly for regional areas.
RIEGER: You don't think there's too much of a focus on renewables?
SENATOR AYRES: Let me break this into two parts. What Mark is complaining about here is that the small part of the Future Made in Australia agenda, which is directed towards Australian solar manufacturing and solar capacity. And I'll come to the broader package in a moment, but solar PV is invented in Australia. There is not a single solar panel in the world that is not made with Australian IP contained in every single solar panel. What we fail to do is to commercialise the opportunities here in Australia. What that means is that more than 85% of the world's solar panels are made in just one jurisdiction. That is sure bad news in terms of economic opportunity and jobs for all of the other countries around the world, but in terms of supply chain resilience and energy security, it is not a good outcome for the world. Australia is playing its part here on solar manufacturing with a number of our key partners to make sure that there is energy security and that there is supply chain resilience. On the question of solar panels, and the solar panels that will be made in Australia are new generation solar panels, again invented in Australia, using copper instead of silver, that are much more efficient than any solar panel in the world. The plant that has been established at the old Liddell power station will employ more people than Liddell power station has employed in living memory. The problem here is, it's easy to cast the negativity over the top of these things. But when you come to the fact there is opportunity for Australia and an absolute driving national interest imperative to make sure that we contribute to supply chains and secure our future.
RIEGER: While we're talking about renewables and all that sort of stuff, tell us about the approval of Australia's biggest renewable energy project.
SENATOR AYRES: This is the largest solar project in Australian history. There is plenty more to come. The point about Future Made in Australia is we have the best solar reserves on the planet, we have the best wind reserves on the planet, and we have enormous space. Our interior, much of the continent, is right there for energy, not just for Australia, but also to produce for our trading partners, to bring value add and profit onshore and good jobs. The project you're talking about is the SunCable project. It is vast. It is designed to export solar energy to our neighbors who have got very difficult energy challenges of their own. It's an enormous opportunity. It’s just one of the projects that creates opportunity, jobs, and investment using our comparative advantage. Our comparative advantage is all of the minerals under the ground that are required for this giant industrial transformation that is going on in 97% of our trading partners. We have the best wind and solar above the ground. We get that right and we create enormous opportunity for Australia. You had disinvestment over the last decade. Future Made in Australia is all about driving investment for the next decade, which will be absolutely consequential in terms of Australia's future security and future economic opportunity. The good thing about the Future Made in Australia agenda is it's absolutely necessary from a security and economic resilience perspective, but the benefits flow to Australia's regions, because that's where new factories are going to be built.
RIEGER: Let's just touch quickly on the Pacific Islands Forum. Obviously, climate change on the agenda with that, and important for us to have a seat on the table.
SENATOR AYRES: It sure is. Our relationship with the Pacific has been transformed with the new government. Remember the last government, we had Peter Dutton and Tony Abbott and all these characters getting caught in their own hot mic moment joking about, the sea inundation of these Pacific states. The existential issue that there is for these Pacific states, Peter Dutton was joking about when he was last at the Pacific Islands Forum. The new government rebooted our relationship with the Pacific by being genuine about the issues that matter to them. Australia's future security is based upon our relationships with our neighbors. That's why we are investing heavily in Southeast Asia, in the broader Indo-Pacific, but also in the relationships with all of these Pacific countries and playing the role that Australia should be to support their economic development and their aspirations, so that they are economically resilient and independent and aren't being pushed around by the big powers.
RIEGER: And before I let you go, let's just quickly touch on the right to switch off laws, because that's been in the news in recent days. And again, Mark Coulton had a bit to say on that this morning, suggesting that perhaps it was designed to give the unions more power.
SENATOR AYRES: He's usually pretty sensible, Mark, but he's got it wrong on Future Made in Australia, and he's got it wrong here. The problem for the Coalition, the Liberals and Nationals, in industrial relations is, every time there's a sensible change, they say that the sky is going to fall in. The last time we made industrial relations reform, Michaelia Cash said there wouldn't be goods on supermarket shelves and that there would be an economic catastrophe. I mean, the truth is that this set of reforms is all about saying that workers who aren't being paid to do work online, emails, phone calls, through the evenings, have got a right to say that they'll take the call tomorrow. For many workers who are service sector, professional workers who are not being paid, I stress not being paid for this kind of work, it's intrusive and smashes their family time. This is not about reasonable phone calls and emails, and particularly for people who are being paid for it, where it's part of their employment contract that they are expected to do this kind of work. But what it does mean is that a worker has got the right to their own family time. I think every Australian would agree that it's sensible. I just say again, every time there is a change made, this sort of overwhelming negativity, is to say that the sky will fall in. The truth is, Australian workplaces will make simple adjustments and move on, and it will be a better outcome for people who are finding their family time crowded in by unreasonable demands.
CHRIS: Senator Tim Ayres, appreciate your time this morning. Thanks for chatting to us.
SENATOR AYRES: Good on you Chris, anytime.
ENDS.
