PAUL CULLIVER, HOST: Let's get the Labor Party's reaction, indeed, the government's reaction. Tim Ayres, not only Labor Senator for NSW, but also Assistant Minister for Trade and Assistant Minister for a Future Made in Australia and joins you this afternoon. Senator, good afternoon.
SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR TRADE AND ASISTANT MINISTER FOR A FUTURE MADE IN AUSTRALIA: G'day. Very good to be on the show.
CULLIVER: What has your reaction been to this earthquake in the Hunter today?
SENATOR AYRES: The most important thing here, Paul, is that people are safe. I've heard, as you have, reports that there are some injuries for workers at the Mount Arthur Coal Mine. I trust that everybody's been looked after in that situation. I know that NSW Police have been working through some of the detail here and also that where that there are six dam owners where information about structural updates has been sought from them. All of the work that the emergency management authorities need to do is being done. The first order of business here is to make sure that everybody in the community is safe. And I'm reassured by what we've heard so far. We hope that everybody at Mount Arthur's okay, but there's still some work to go.
CULLIVER. As we know, and the hard-working local services that are responding, there’s some kind of federal response that triggers when an earthquake like this hits?
SENATOR AYRES: Well, the National Emergency Management Minister, Jenny McAllister's, receiving reports in relation to this. Some of the information that I have is from her office. In the first instance here, it is the NSW Government. There's a clear delineation of responsibilities. It is the NSW Government and their emergency services, particularly NSW police, who are responding in the first instance. I wish them the very best for their work, and as I said before, the first order of business here is to make sure that people in the Hunter Valley are safe. There is some history, of course, in this region to earthquake events. Some people will be feeling very strongly about the events of the last few hours, so making sure that people look after each other is very important as well.
CULLIVER. So, let's go to the issues the seismologists that we spoke to raised around the idea that human activity, indeed mining activity, can catalyse or cause earthquakes to happen. In this case, the epicentre was right there at the Mount Arthur Coal Mine. We obviously cannot, at this point, draw a direct connection, but we can point out two things to be true at the same time. Should more be done here to investigate whether, indeed, mining activity is causing earthquakes in the Hunter?
SENATOR AYRES: I reckon it's really important that politicians don't express views about the science or the geophysics that are engaged here. I, of course, like everybody else who heard that interview, would want to know more. I just want to be very open and honest with you, Paul. I've not heard any of that material before. It is it's not a connection that I would draw or seek to draw without there being a solid evidentiary basis for that. I'm really just not in a position to comment on that. That is a matter for the scientific community and the geophysics community to work through. But in the broad, the government's response here is we want to make sure everybody's okay.
CULLIVER: Sure. But if there is a possibility here, we're hearing from an expert from UNSW saying there could be a link drawn here if we get all the information together. Obviously, BHP would have information to provide on their activity when they were setting off mine blasts. Anything else? Any other surrounding mines? Of course, as well, should it be the expectation that everyone is open and transparent, providing that information so we can get answers?
SENATOR AYRES: Yes, of course. There should be a proper understanding of what's gone on here. I am not certain to what extent these issues are engaged in the planning process, of course, for mines or what other evidence there is. I've heard part of your interview with one expert this afternoon, but I'm just very reluctant, Paul, to comment on areas of, unlike some of the other people across the parliament who've got very strong views about areas of physics and climate science and engineering that they don't really understand, I have a really strong view; experts are the right people to be engaged on these issues.
CULLIVER: All right, we are about to hear from Ted O'Brien, the Shadow Energy Minister. But I want to put this question to you, and certainly we've already had media releases dropping into my inbox today during a connection between earthquakes and a proposal to build nuclear power plants at all coal fired power sites. Of course, Liddell is one of them, one of the seven locations identified by the LNP. Where does this leave that plan as you see it? And what kind of safeguards might we need if we went down that road?
SENATOR AYRES: Can I just say three things about this? It's just another reason why nuclear reactors are a bad idea for Australia. That's why Keith Pitt, who's the National Party member at Hervey Bay in Queensland, has tried to rule out nuclear reactors everywhere else except for his own electorate, because he says there is a risk of earthquakes in his electorate. It's why, after the Fukushima nuclear reactor disaster, which was caused by an earthquake and tsunami activity, there has been a wave of activity around the world in countries that do have nuclear reactors. Nuclear power plants have become more expensive to build, are taking longer to build, and there are jurisdictions around the world that are shifting from nuclear to other sources of energy. The principal reason for the Labor government keeping our focus on whether economics and the science and the comparative advantage for Australia, though, is nuclear is a bad idea on cost. It's the most expensive form of energy. It will take decades and decades to build. We don't have a nuclear industry in Australia, but should we try and build one, you can see what has happened in the rest of the world. All of these projects running tens and tens of billions of dollars. Not tens and tens of millions of dollars, tens and tens of billions of dollars over budget and decades over time scale. And finally, this debate, what it creates is disinvestment risk for the Hunter Valley. The Net Zero Authority Bill passed the parliament this week. It's a very significant achievement.
CULLIVER: This is now going to be a debate going forward about the relation to earthquakes and nuclear power plants. When I've asked you about the human made or possible human made connection to earthquakes, you were very cautious about that, and that's fine, you can absolutely do that. But then you really did run headlong into the connection between earthquakes and nuclear power plants and raising all sorts of other concerns. Do you have scientific advice that suggests that nuclear power plants would be unsafe at the Liddell site?
SENATOR AYRES: Well, I'll just say three things. We've seen what the impact of that event in Japan has had on their energy system...
CULLIVER: All right, but how fair is that connection in Liddell?
SENATOR AYRES: It is about seismic activity. Number two, that National Party members in areas where there is earthquake activity are rushing to try and rule themselves out of this. Number three, though, the principal argument here is about cost and delivery. This is a bad idea.
CULLIVER: You've made that point.
SENATOR AYRES: It should be ruled out for the Hunter for a dozen reasons. There is not a single good reason to create disinvestment in energy capacity in the Hunter. To force people in the Hunter Valley to accept a nuclear reactor whether they like it or not. That will deter investment, make energy more expensive and will close down local manufacturing.
CULLIVER: All right, we'll have to leave it there. Senator, thanks for your time.
SENATOR AYRES: Thanks, Paul.
CULLIVER: Labor Senator for NSW and Assistant Minister for Trade and Assistant Minister for a Future Made in Australia. It is ABC Newcastle. Paul Culliver.
ENDS.
