GREG JENNETT, HOST: Tim Ayres was in and around the Senate when the Construction Union Bill was introduced earlier today. He's the Assistant Minister for Trade, Manufacturing and for A Future Made in Australia these days. Tim Ayres is with us in the studio. Tim, welcome back to the program. You tabled the Bill and you were there at the time. It provides for the administrator, once appointed, to go through and sack and union officials, controls over rules and properties. Just on the union officials to be sacked, what's the scale of that? It's in the hundreds, isn't it?
SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR A FUTURE MADE IN AUSTRALIA AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR TRADE: That's certainly what's been reported, but ultimately this will be in the hands of the administrator. It is the right thing to do. Murray Watt, as the Minister coming in, made it very clear. The union would be required to consent to the administration. If that hadn't happened by the end of last week, that the Government would proceed with legislation to clear the way for administration without legal action and all of the delay associated with that. This is calculated to be in the best interest of cleaning up this union, but also in the best interests of construction workers and the construction industry. It is the hard road, that is for sure, but it is the right thing to do and the Government's determined to deliver it.
JENNETT: It could be a very hard road indeed. I wonder what anticipated blowback you think might come in the direction of the Government from the CFMEU. And I'll cite one recent example; the ousted former Victorian boss John Setka is now sporting a new tattoo, according to the Herald Sun. “God forgives, the CFMEU doesn't,” it says. I mean, that is indicative of a mindset towards retribution, isn't it?
SENATOR AYRES: It’s certainly indicative of a mindset of a sense of privilege and immunity from criticism and proper governance standards. Mr Setka has departed the CFMEU. One of the first things that the new leader of the Labor party did in 2019 was expel Mr Setka from the Labor party. And that kind of approach, that kind of refusal to accept responsibility for proper governance standards and to put the interests of members and construction workers and the union first is, I think, part of the culture that has enveloped that particular branch, the construction and general branch of the CFMEU. These allegations go beyond all of that kind of behaviour. The allegations are very serious indeed and merit a proper response from Government. That is what the Government's doing here, not the hyperbole and the politics, just the right response in the interests of proper administration.
JENNETT: And these troubles have obviously outlived John Setka’s tenure, so he would have allies and tenants who are still in the ranks of the union. Clearly, Murray Watt has indicated there is an expectation of legal efforts to frustrate the Government. Do you expect or are you prepared for this to go all the way to the High Court?
SENATOR AYRES: Well, the Government will defend its position in the interests of construction workers and the proper administration of this union. The legislation is there in front of the Senate now, that no delay ought to be countenance. As delay and uncertainty.... the Government is not prepared to allow delay and uncertainty. That is why we brought the legislation forward. It's a tough approach, it's hard work. It is going to be sustained over a period of time, but it's going to be in the best interest of construction workers and the industry. It'll be interesting to see. You know, there's a lot of noise from Michaelia Cash. I saw that contribution. Well, at the end of the day, they're going to have to decide, are they in it? Are they going to stand with firm action on this question or allow for delay and uncertainty?
JENNETT: A Senate Inquiry may be raised by the Coalition or by the Greens or all of the above. You'd have to tolerate that, wouldn't you?
SENATOR AYRES: Well, this is urgent legislation. It ought to be given automatic passage through the Parliament. Everybody in the Senate should be voting for this. It is in the interests of the proper administration of this organisation. It's in the interests of construction workers and it ought to proceed immediately. Delay tactics - in the normal course of events - it's absolutely proper for a Senate committee to do its work. The problem with that here, Greg, is that that is a delay when urgent action is required.
JENNETT: But not something you can ultimately control, though, is it? If it’s the will of the Senate.
SENATOR AYRES: It's going to be up to the Liberals and the Nationals and the Greens how they proceed here. They want to engage in the sort of hyper partisanship and the stunts and the florid rhetoric, fine, but don't delay passage of this bill. If they allow that partisanship to overtake here, not in the national interest, not in the interest of the construction industry, people should hold them accountable for that. The Government certainly will.
JENNETT: Ok, now look, in an associated role, and we've spoken about this before with you on the program. You happen to be on the ALP National Executive. At the time that the National Executive suspended the affiliation of the construction division in NSW, Victoria, South Australia, in Tasmania, it left open further consideration of donations and affiliations for other branches. Murray Watt has indicated that administration will probably apply to the lot of them. Where does that leave ALP consideration of Queensland and Northern Territory?
SENATOR AYRES: I haven't been taken to that particular question before, so I don't have a response for you in relation to that quite precise proposition. It's clear that in terms of the branches of the construction and general division that have been suspended from the Labor Party, no donations or affiliation fees, they are outside the tent in those areas.
JENNETT: But will there be consistency of approach?
SENATOR AYRES: We will watch, obviously, from the organisation's perspective, these developments very closely. The principal thing that has to happen here is Government action in relation to the administration. I accept we'll have to continue to watch this closely. The Labor Party National Executive made the decision that it did, on the basis of what was in front of it. It was quick, fast, decisive action. I am most concerned now with making sure that this legislation passes the Parliament, provides certainty for the administration so that we can get on with the important work that Murray Watts has taken charge of here.
JENNETT: OK. Well, maybe in subsequent conversations we can check out with you and others what happens with donations from other branches of the union? Tim Ayres, I might take you to something well outside of your direct responsibilities, but as a member of the Caucus, the total ban on gambling advertising that was recommended by the House Committee more than a year ago. Now, some Caucus members remain fully committed to that. Where do you stand?
SENATOR AYRES: Well, I'm part of a Cabinet process and a Caucus process on these questions and the Minister will make announcements in due course. The first thing to say is Peta Murphy's contribution here was absolutely outstanding. It was one of the legacies that she left the Parliament was such a thorough going report on this area of public policy.
JENNETT: Does that create a responsibility to then deliver on it in full?
SENATOR AYRES: Certainly people across the caucus and across the Parliament feel a responsibility to take effective, decisive, sustainable, long-term action here. The Government has gone through a range of reforms here already. They are substantial announcements. I know there's been some media speculation about what announcements are likely to be. I am going to wait until the Minister makes an announcement and the Government's positions put out there. She'll make that. She's engaged in a very thorough going departmental and broader consultation process. When she's satisfied that we've landed the right result, she'll announce it.
JENNETT: The Prime Minister actually recapped some of the measures adopted already and look - Future Made in Australia. I keep promising every time you come on that we'll come back to this with you. Because you do have it formally in your responsibilities these days. Are you sensing a greater openness on the part of the Coalition, based on recent public pronouncements by some of them that they may well be on board for production subsidies that are foreshadowed in Future Made in Australia? They weren't, because it was billions for billionaires at budget, but there is a little bit of room to manoeuvre there, it seems, in their ranks. Now you're banking on that?
SENATOR AYRES: We will see. I certainly wouldn't bank on it. Mr. Dutton's only got one speed, really, and that's negativity, and being a sort of negative press release machine. He softened his approach because he was in front of a group of mining industry representatives in Western Australia. The problem is he doesn't get Western Australia and how important the resources and manufacturing sectors are for Western Australia, how wealth and opportunity and investment is created there. He doesn't get it. So, when he went there, he had a softer line. Twenty minutes later, Mr. Taylor wanted to make it very clear they are back to their old recalcitrant negative proposition. The truth is the world is moving past these guys. Our key trading partners, 97% with their own net zero targets. Two and a half thousand industry policy interventions in economies around the world that create substantial opportunity for Australia to rebuild manufacturing investment in our regions and suburbs. But also a risk. It's a disinvestment Dutton risk here that if uncertainty is created, that leads to a very bad outcome in manufacturing terms. We saw all the disinvestment of the last decade. We are determined as a Government to drive manufacturing investment in good jobs in regions and suburbs right across Australia.
JENNETT: All right, well, if there is any wavering within Coalition ranks, you might have a few more to convince before you can get them on side. Tim Ayres. I'm sure we'll be coming back to that and other topics. It's a busy sitting day around here, so we appreciate you finding some time for us once again.
SENATOR AYRES: Good to see you, Greg.
ENDS.
