GREG JENNETT, HOST: We have Tim Ayres, the recently promoted front bencher with the government, and we are hoping, Tim Ayres, as I say, welcome to you, that we will eventually be reunited with your old sparring partner in Michael McCormack. Why don't we start with the terror threat level? Be aware, not frightened, says the Prime Minister today and the ASIO Director-General, Mike Burgess, spoke of acts of violence that can be almost spontaneous or purely reactive. What is the advice here, Senator, to members of the public? What can they do, or should they do with this information?
SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR A FUTURE MADE IN AUSTRALIA AND TRADE: Well obviously, it means the advice from the security agencies is that there's a heightened risk of one of these events occurring. I do think that the most important thing that members of the public can do, given that what we've seen is a rise in extremist and conspiracy type thinking and embrace of ideologies that are far right hand extremist, the most important thing that people in the community can do is call this stuff out when they see it. There's all this absolute swill on social media. Conspiracy theories abound. Curate your own social media reading, go with trusted sources, and if you see your kids getting into this sort of stuff, if you see your friends or colleagues, challenge it. For political leaders, think about your leadership responsibility before you shoot your mouth off talking in extremist and violent language or making claims that are patently untrue. I mean, we all have a responsibility within the community, but in particular, for political leaders and Members of Parliament and Senators.
JENNETT: Yeah, just ground that one down for us, if you don't mind Tim Ayres, and we do have Michael with us, I'll bring him in in just a moment, but rather than speaking generically, is that a reference? I take it to be a reference to the Greens.
AYRES: Certainly some of the claims, the deliberate mistruths that are circulated over and over and over again, some of the language that is used is very unhelpful, deliberately unhelpful for social cohesion and is being used in a way to try and secure partisan advantage - nothing to do with a human crisis in Gaza, all about trying to secure political advantage. But I was thinking, in particular, when I just made those comments, about Barnaby Joyce's language. Using language about bullets and magazines and guns in an environment where there is febrile conspiracy theories abound, is dangerous. He knows it, and it's got to stop.
JENNETT: No, thanks for clarifying that, Tim, it was good to ground where you're actually coming from there. Michael McCormack, feel free to respond to that if you wish. We did have several discussions on the program last week about Barnaby Joyce, including with the Prime Minister, I might say. But you were around the Cabinet table and the NSC table back at the height or the depths of Islamic State's powers. How do things strike you as different, Michael McCormack, with the warnings we're being given by the ASIO Director-General, now compared to then? It does sound like it's multifaceted. It's coming at us from the left, from the right, and from a number of other angles right now. Does it strike you that way?
MICHAEL McCORMACK, MP: It does. And look, I don't disagree with Tim there when he says inflammatory language is unnecessary, and the Greens political party stands condemned for the actions that it has had. We've even just seen the Australian Council of Jewry condemn Senator Nick McKim for allowing his office space to be used for pro-Palestinian, you could say pro-Hamas, activities. Indeed, talking about the end of the Israel state and the like. What we've seen, not just in capital cities Greg and Tim, but also in country and regional centres right throughout Australia, I mean, even in Wagga Wagga, we've seen some disgraceful shop windows displayed with vulgar language in relation to anti-semetic slogans, hate-filled language, people screaming out ‘baby killer’ across the street. This is not Wagga Wagga. It's not the city I grew up in, and they proclaim to be an organisation called Sundays for Peace, and they're anything but. But this is right across Australia, and this inflammatory language, as Tim has just quite correctly said, I agree with you, it has to stop. We have to tone down what we say and how we say it. We have to accept that Australia is a very diverse nation, but these pro-Hamas activities in the nation leave a lot to be desired, and it's worrying. It really is disturbing.
JENNETT: I get the responsible statements that you're both making here, but I wonder, Tim Ayres, whether it is possible to put this genie back in the bottle. We look at similar trends in the UK, shockingly, in fact, in the last 24 to 48 hours and in the US. Why should we believe that Australia, as a society, or through its security agencies, is capable of containing what seems unable to be contained in those two countries and many others besides?
AYRES: The scenes in the United Kingdom are, of course, very confronting. I was encouraged by the leadership position that Keir Starmer took on that question over the course of last night and today, making an emphatic declaration on behalf of the Government about far right extremism in this case. I do think that, from the government's perspective, we are being absolutely careful and acting in the national interest on these questions. Remember the Prime Minister and Foreign Minister said at the beginning of this conflict in the Middle East that our approach was going to be guided by the national interest and Australian values, and one of the key focuses for the government was going to be on social cohesion. These are tough issues. They, of course, are very confronting. But the leadership message that people in government, including myself, but right across the political spectrum, that's what's important here. It can't just be the government.
JENNETT: Otherwise you get caught in these echo chambers where people reinforce their views with others, and they're on the same social media as well.
AYRES: We have to agree on what's decent here, and that's why the Prime Minister was so angry, and rightly so, about what Barnaby Joyce said last week. It's a mystery to me while he's still there. It does require making tough calls about calling it out when it's on your own side, and I think it's important that that happens, and it hasn't happened.
JENNETT: All right, quick final word on that, Michael, I'm not sure everyone could hear what you just said. Feel free to rule the line under that, Michael McCormack, and then I want to move on to aviation policy.
McCORMACK: Barnaby Joyce has apologised for that, let's leave it at that.
JENNETT: Okay, all right, why don't we go to something you're both reliant on as frequent travellers in regional New South Wales in particular. We've had the announcement, Michael, I'll go to you first of all as a former minister in this area, from Catherine King putting out to tender the management of those all-important landing slots into Sydney Airport, currently controlled by an entity that is, you know, in effect, Qantas and Virgin. Do you hold out hope that this management structure will change, Michael McCormack, do you see competition flourishing if it does?
McCORMACK: The Shadow Tourism and Trade Minister Kevin Hogan has, just five minutes ago, put out a media release calling for more competition, and that is needed. Look, Labor has had two years to do something about this and has done absolutely nothing. We know that the slots of the runway, no more than 80 in any given hour, Labor has not done anything on this in two years. Labor has said back in February that it was going to review it, that it was going to do something about it. It's now August. Nothing has happened. Catherine King has come out with an announcement today, but the trouble is with the Transport Minister is that she doesn't really care that much about aviation. She never speaks about it too much and, quite frankly, she's all announcement and never any delivery.
JENNETT: All right, well, there's a white paper pending. Has been for quite some time. But are you holding your breath here for the arrival or reemergence, Tim Ayres, of a viable regional competitor, whether it be Rex or anyone else, because of this Slot Management Review?
AYRES: Well, it's an important part of the reforms that Catherine King, that the Minister began in February of this year. It's consistent, and it's part of process. These reforms, I believe, were called for in 2021. Michael acts as if there was nothing before the two years of this government, that there was perfect competition in the aviation sector, and that everything was okay. The truth is, there is a lot of work to do in this area, on the reform front. In terms of Rex itself, I mean, obviously, it's critical for regional transport. There are some airports where it's only Rex who services those airports. It's absolutely critical, not just for prices, but actually maintaining services to regional communities.
JENNETT: What does the government's pledge on that, Tim? It's that come what may for this corporate entity called Rex, it will underwrite or ensure those services remain right.
AYRES: Well, as you know, the government's working through this carefully. It's not for me to make declarations about where Catherine King and the department will get to on these questions. Obviously, there are 600 employees. There are regional communities and the government will work carefully to get the best result in the interests of those communities, in the interest of those workers, but also the national aviation market. It's vital for the functioning of regional economies.
JENNETT: Yep, I'm seeing you nodding there. Please, Michael.
McCORMACK: Greg, if I could just add the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and I spoke about this at Cowra yesterday, where he, quite appropriately and respectfully, turned up for the 80th Breakout commemorations, the Japanese internment camp, which the community loved having him there. So, I'll put that on the record, but he has given assurance that the government will do everything it can to continue those regional services. And look, it's not about Regional Express, although I'd like to see Regional Express obviously, keep flying. It is, as Tim has quite correctly pointed out, it's those country communities, and it's more than just vital services. This is a matter of life and death. Some of those communities, they only have Rex flying into them, so if Rex doesn't fly into them, people will die. It's as simple as that. And so, the government needs to underwrite them and needs to come out very soon with the plan it has in place to support Rex during this difficult time. And whether that's an equity situation or whatever, doesn't matter. Those country communities need to be serviced and need to be serviced continuously by Rex, by regional airlines and to make sure that people can make those vital medical appointments and other air travel.
JENNETT: All right, well, thank you for being the conduit Michael McCormack in conveying the Prime Minister's thinking. I think that also accords with what he said publicly, but it's straight from the horse's mouth, because you held those talks in Cowra. Other matters we might have discussed today, both, but due to some technical issues at Michael's end, lost a little bit of time at the start. I think we might wrap it up there. Come back to Future Made in Australia, I promise with you, Tim Ayres, perhaps one-on-one in the near future.
AYRES: Let's do that, that'd be very good.
JENNETT: Yeah, I know it's his favourite issue and lots of questions. Michael, we'll get you back on with Tim when the wheel next turns in your direction. Thanks so much.
SENATOR AYRES: Thanks Greg, thanks Michael.
ENDS.
