88.9FM Tamworth with Macca, 16 July 2024

MATT “MACCA” MACCARTHY, HOST: We seem to be rearresting reoffenders a lot of the time. These people are, you know, obviously known to police. It needs to be some stricter things as far as, whether it's rehabilitation, whether they're even going to pay attention to rehabilitation. Is the Government doing enough, in your opinion, as far as rehabilitation programs, prison farms, all of these sorts of things, which have proved to work very, very well. A lot of money, a lot of investments going into, you know, renewables and things like that, which are important. But at the end of the day, there's nothing more important than our lives, and lives are being put at risk in these situations. 

SENATOR TIM AYRES, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR TRADE AND MANUFACTURING: Yeah, look thanks for the question. I listened to part of your discussion with the fella who rang in before. It's obviously very distressing for individual Tamworth residents who've had, what appears to have happened over the course of yesterday evening and yesterday. You know, the first thing that I would say is; it is an absolutely terrible and reckless thing to do for any person, particularly a young person, to be carrying a weapon. I hope those offenders are apprehended very quickly and support the work of the police that they're doing to do that work. I also think that the way that you've been approaching the discussion, comes from the right place, which is, there is no one size fits all simple answer. I'm really skeptical of people who get stuck into this stuff at a public level and have a simple answer. You know, either, bigger penalties or whatever the simple answer is. The truth is, that this is really hard work, everybody has a role to play in the local community. Largely criminal justice issues are an issue for the state governments. At the Commonwealth level, our criminal justice powers are to do with those, you know, national level offenses; terrorism, drug trafficking, a range of money laundering, those sorts of offenses. But we are supporting the states in a range of areas to try new approaches, particularly in country Australia, where you can see a range of factors, driving youth crime, driving reoffending. And you know, and I know, that the moment that you lock somebody up, you've really lost the battle. We should try and do, as you say, top quality rehabilitation. Try innovating new ways of doing rehabilitation with young people, but it’s the work that has to go in right across the community. Everybody has a role to play, including community leadership, that's going to make the difference here, but it's bloody hard, mate. 

MACCA: What do you think about CCTV footage actually being made mandatory? So, obviously, we've got to put water tanks on our properties as part of the basics code as far as buildings [are] concerned. What do you think about actually making CCTV mandatory for all Australians? 

AYRES: Well, yeah, a lot of us have it in our homes. You know, at our front doors, it seems like a sensible precaution for people to take.

[media outage] 

With the National reconstruction fund, the biggest pro-manufacturing package in Australian history, with the transport networks from here through to the port of Newcastle, the industrial diversification agenda - which will mean new factories being built through the Hunter Valley and up along the agriculture and mining supply chain - that we're maximizing the opportunity for country towns manufacturing jobs. I'm in Tamworth today, Armidale tomorrow, looking at energy investments there, and energy research that's going on there. And I'll be in Moree on Thursday to listen and learn and make sure we're calibrating our approach. So yes, the big industrial centres, the Hunter Valley, the energy capital of the country, really the Hunter Valley, that there's billions of dollars of investment in manufacturing there, if we continue to get the policy settings right, but also that it flows into country towns like Tamworth and Moree. 

MACCA:  Lot of this money, obviously coming from mining, which the government's looking to minimize a bit. And you know, you look at the Greens, you look at Labor, there's plenty of organizations looking to do that. You also look at the fact that I believe we’re the third biggest seller in the world of uranium, yet our government's basically saying we'd rather not use it ourselves. So, although it's creating jobs and these sorts of things, effectively, I would have thought that if the mining cuts down, and the uranium costs cuts down, or our own use of these particular ores, that's actually putting a hole in the job market, or to being able to fill those jobs. So how does that work with the Future Made in Australia policy? 

AYRES: There's two bits to that. Number one, we back Australian mining 100%. The truth is that the global market for coal will deteriorate over time, or it is. The market for Australian gas overseas will be a function of the industrial processes in other countries. It's dependent upon our trading relationships. But here in Australia, we have all of the minerals that are required for what is the biggest industrial transformation since the industrial revolution. We can choose to be part of it and value add, or we can sit on our hands in a sort of climate denialism energy policy failure spiral, which was what the last government did. We're determined to grab hold of it and to drive that, in new industrial processes and manufacturing onshore. 97% of our trading partners have net zero targets, and they want Australian low emissions technology, and they want our minerals, and they want our process minerals. I'd absolutely reject the idea that we're got any equivocation about the future of the mining sector, it's critical, it drives good jobs in country towns, and we are for it. The second part of that is about nuclear energy. Australia's comparative advantage is in solar and wind and storage. That is the cheapest energy for Australia. If we build onshore nuclear facilities, that's introducing more expensive energy into the mix. There's nothing wrong with us exporting uranium around the world to countries that have safe records, comply with the International Atomic Energy Agency requirements. Nothing wrong with that at all, but for Australia to use uranium as our source of power just means more expensive power for consumers and households, and it makes industry uncompetitive and will force manufacturing offshore. I Understand Barnaby Joyce is in Muswellbrook today, trying to explain their nuclear power. [It] just means more expensive power for consumers and households, and it makes industry uncompetitive and will force manufacturing offshore. I understand, Barnaby Joyce is in Muswellbrook today, trying to explain their nuclear reactor for Muswellbrook plan. The truth is, at best, none of these plants would be built until the 2040s. There will be an investment drought between now and then. Jobs will go offshore. The experience overseas is; these projects, anything built in the 21st century, these projects run not just a few billion dollars over, but tens and tens and tens of billions of dollars over and decades over time. 

MACCA: So, these are our nuclear reactions that we’re talking about. Barnaby, Federal Member Barnaby Joyce, mentioned, Tim, that our power bills, effectively, the numbers that he’s just done, have come up 6% since Labor’s been in government. How do you respond to that? And I’ve just received my power bill mate, and it’s up 6%, I’ve got to be honest. 

AYRES: Yeah, that's right, and it would be up 18% if it were not for the government's measures putting caps on coal and gas prices over the last couple of years. What's going on here is a bit of political opportunism. It is absolutely right that renewables and storage is the lowest form of energy. It is absolutely the right strategy for Australia to follow. All of the serious experts say that's the case, and that's what the energy market operator is directing us towards. The truth is also that the war in Ukraine, the most significant war in Europe since the Second World War, has had an impact on energy prices in the short term. We are doing everything that we can as a government to shield households and businesses from that. That means you're paying much less than you otherwise would have been. But we absolutely respect and understand that many households are facing higher bills, and we are working short term to put downward pressure on the prices. We're providing energy bill relief – three hundred bucks will be flowing to people now. But in the medium to long term, we're also making sure we're doing what's needed to fix our energy system so it provides for investors in our manufacturing sector. They need investment certainty about prices in the long term, and we are doing everything we can as a government. The previous government made a real mess of this. Twenty-three energy policies [and they] couldn't land a single one of them. We've had one. We've legislated it. We're implementing it. It will lead to lower prices.  

MACCA: Let's say we could have our cake and eat it too. Tim, is there any room in the government's mind for nuclear at all? Is there a balance?  

AYRES: The problem here is we are not going to do anything that's going to make prices more expensive. That's the bottom line. We are not going to do anything that will deter global investment and entering this spiral where we're flip flopping around about energy policy...last year, Peter Dutton said he's opposed to large scale nuclear. This year, he's for it. Goodness knows what he'll be for next year. What is required is good evidence-based policy making, leading to policy decisions, leading to implemented targets, leading to investments in our regions. That's what the government's doing here. The Opposition; the Liberals and Nationals, are just caught in this policy spiral where they can't bring themselves to do the right thing by the country. That's the problem. Nuclear is expensive. It is a good option for countries that have established nuclear industries that don't have our solar and wind advantages. It's a good option for the United States, for the United Kingdom, but it's a bad option for Australia because of our natural advantages and our comparative advantage. It's like suggesting that the government of Finland should invest in banana plantations. It's the wrong technology. The wrong industry for them. Nuclear is the wrong technology in the wrong industry for us.  

MACCA: Senator Tim Ayres joins us this morning. 

ENDS.